Which is the better motor poll

Discuss matters of a general nature

From the results which would be the best performing motor

R1 Wurks
5
21%
Reedy Mach2
12
50%
Speed Passion V3
7
29%
 
Total votes: 24
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B.C.Ninja
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Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:25 pm

Well some may recognise a few of these results from the info in the Remits that have just been emailed out, so I thought I'd smash up a wee poll to see if people actually understand the results that are present. So from the three options choose the one that you think would be the best performing motor for running in stock, from the results posted that is. It is info like this that if misunderstood can cause many an issue in our sport, it will be interesting to see the results. Cheers for the guys that took the time to take some readings as it does highlight some current issues with developing a motor list for a spec class but it also highlights how a little knowledge can cause problems at the same time, the results were all conducted on the same tester with the same test voltage so are constant, have a pnt and we'll see how we end up in the end.
In no way is this a bag or an ups to any brand I just picked the three most relevant results to base the poll on :mrgreen: (y)


edited to make it easier to see, formatting bunged it up a bit


Motor .....................Timing.....................KV.................RPM.............Amps
.....................(as per motor tester)

R1 Wurks....................45.....................2720...............21900............6.4
Reedy Mach2..............46.....................2360...............19140............3.4
SP V3..........................33.....................2030...............16900............0.8

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Scott 119
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Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:13 am

Impossible to chose unless all timing values set to the same and knowing the motors limit for timing.

Also no Torque figures which are important when choosing a motor depending on class but you need a dyno to test that. The next best test is a rotor strength test.

http://www.rccaraction.com/blog/2016/06 ... or-tester/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Scott Brownhill - HOT Ltd

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RCNZ
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Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:13 pm

The fastest one is the one the team driver talks up the most or the dodgy importer/shop say's it's faster because he imports it.
You can spot these guys by
1; Our brand is 20% faster than the other brand
2; Know one ever regretted buying quality
3; Those other brands blow up

Back to motor testing and you can't say what motor is best from your test. The analyzer is a good way to check the condition of your motors or work out a good starting point for gearing but it will not tell you what motor is the best.

Michael Jones
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Location: Christchurch

Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:29 pm

Impossible to tell.

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ed
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Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:10 pm

the key word here should be efficiency.

with that in mind it is possible to deduce which motor of the three will perform better, but its Nicks post, so I wont go into it

ed

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Scott 119
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:28 pm

the key word here should be efficiency.
Stock used to be a trade off between efficiency and power but now with no battery cap you just want the most powerful motor you can get because you wont dump.

If you want to prevent a motor war go back to limiting battery capacity, Battery capacity is easily cheeked by weight, Its not an exact science but its pretty good.
Last edited by Scott 119 on Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Scott Brownhill - HOT Ltd

TLR Racing
Morgan Fuel
Savox
ORCA RC
Spektrum
VS Engines By Rody

Michael Jones
Posts: 395
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Location: Christchurch

Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:05 pm

These figures dont actually give you any information at all. Only really good for making sure the motor goes and thats about it.

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Rally Stylz
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:44 pm

Agreed Michael, as perfectly stated in the original post "a little knowledge can cause problems".

Also everyone knows the fastest motor is the one that costs the most!
TLR|ORCA|Hitec|Savox|Gens Ace|Dynamite
If you don't crash then you're not trying hard enough

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yoisha
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:47 pm

Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:19 pm

"so I thought I'd smash up a wee poll to see if people actually understand the results that are present."
From my experience, if you increase the timing on any brushless motor the apm draw will show an increase on the popular types of brushless motor testers.
Please tell me why were the motors are tested at different timing settings? :)

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B.C.Ninja
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Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:07 pm

yoisha wrote:"so I thought I'd smash up a wee poll to see if people actually understand the results that are present."
From my experience, if you increase the timing on any brushless motor the apm draw will show an increase on the popular types of brushless motor testers.
Please tell me why were the motors are tested at different timing settings? :)
I didn't take the readings, and you make a valid point, and that was what the thread is trying to point out, although the requirement of having the same timing per motor is not required for some comparisons.

So just to make things even more murky, here's a few things to think about........

Torque and its relationship with Current

How Does Timing increase RPM

Efficiency and what are we looking for

Does Timing increase Output Power

Rotor Strength and its relation to Torque and RPM

And last but not least by a long shot, a motors physical construction :mrgreen: (y)

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Scott 119
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Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:34 am

End Bell timing is not a case of more is better, Advancing the timing simply moves the motors efficiency up the rev range. So if you are racing a oval at full throttle you would run higher timing then on a tight track. Of course this has to work in combination with gearing.

If you want to compare motors properly a Dyno spinning a weight is the only way. We used to do in on brushed motors to compare spring & brush combos.
Scott Brownhill - HOT Ltd

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B.C.Ninja
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Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:49 pm

You're right about the movement of efficiency but that relates to a specific RPM value, so for Oval racing where you are pretty much full throttle most of the time it can be beneficial, essentially you are energizing the coils at a time to counteract the skewing of the lines of flux, therefore making the motor more efficient at that instantaneous point in time, yet you could be causing the opposite outside of that RPM range. Field Weakening is essentially what is being achieved when we start adding large amounts of timing advance, creating the possibility for greater RPM values but also at a cost.

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Scott 119
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Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:09 pm

It's not a lot different from setting the timing on a combustion engine. When timing advance was not available you set the timing to have the best average for the given track or required RPM range.
Scott Brownhill - HOT Ltd

TLR Racing
Morgan Fuel
Savox
ORCA RC
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B.C.Ninja
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Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:51 am

Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:45 pm

Precisely, you are making a compromise of extra RPM at the cost of excess current and therefore Heat, as well as reduced Torque, this is where the Motor Analyzer can come in handy like Nath said for setting up a motor, you can find that timing point where you have the biggest bang for your buck, there becomes a point where extra timing starts to decrease performance due to excess current draw. We have to be careful when using that term "Efficiency" though, for some it may come across that we are gaining some performance for free which is not the case. The Dyno test is for sure one of the best methods for giving motors a good run down and I'm actually in the process of sussing all the components to make one for my project to finish off my Dip Eng, for anyone interested there is a great and somewhat easy method to get started called "Simple Dyno" and if I get my ass into gear I may post up my documentation.

But all in all I think its rather obvious that a Motor Analyzer is not the tool for passing judgement on what should and shouldn't be on a spec motor list, and Nath hit the nail on the head with some of what he posted, yes forking out 200 quid for a motor may be beneficial, but there are guys out there holding their own with a $50 Trackstar, and at the end of the day no motor is going to compensate for an inefficient car with an inefficient driver.

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yoisha
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Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:24 pm

"But all in all I think its rather obvious that a Motor Analyzer is not the tool for passing judgement on what should and shouldn't be on a spec motor list"
(y)

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